The Auto Industry So Far & The Return of the AutoExtremist – Autoline After Hours 462

The Auto Industry So Far & The Return of the AutoExtremist – Autoline After Hours 462


greened the shirt how so it’s just like it’s just like my head was floating in my hands were moving my hands wrap you literally could not see anything else I mean that was that was pretty damn funny I mean I don’t know there must be you know something you have to do to that no recipe the thing but I mean it was it was literally like the floating head that was them you realize how much control they have over you that’s true you have no idea what’s going on you just think that that screen is showing you reality but that that screen may not be showing you a reality at all no that’s just they want you to think you’re seeing oh I should see this all right so so basically after I introduce everybody then I’m gonna say okay Colin right in and that sort of thing not I don’t war hand doesn’t have to call him you don’t have to call it you could call in but then there’d probably be this like feedback back our ears won’t explode good turn down the radio so oh say somebody say something because white it’s like dead Aaron we’re moving we’re moving to Cuba Cuban space and so we’re getting the chairs like this for a little private quiet cubbies it’s been 20 years since I’ve lived in the cube are you guys moving yeah we’re moving actually south towards saline oh we’re in the middle of nowhere really industrial park yeah okay I think I think I’m gonna get an office for a while at least but uh I find it bizarre like driving in from ten mile and you look at that that Zef building and and for the last several weeks there’s a wall that is is knocked down and I never seen anything like this the wall is knocked down but you can see the offices imagine some guy sitting sitting there and asked and he knocked the wall down and suddenly that’s the weirdest thing I’ve never Li something goes up yeah there they put this queen or something up in there yeah and it’s just like nothing just these offices and you’d see the separations the guy probably had his noise-cancelling headphones on and didn’t even know that’s it turns around looks and watch otto line after hours live at otto line TV every Thursday at 3 p.m. Eastern Time that’s 12 p.m. Pacific time you can subscribe to this podcast for free by searching for auto line in iTunes stitcher or on YouTube [Music] Auto line after-hours is brought to you by Bridgestone tires your journey our passion we’re a global leader in automotive seating and electrical systems and by BorgWarner propulsion solutions that support a clean energy efficient world welcome to the show appreciate your being here today or whenever the time shifts and you’re here and listening or watching so yesterday was May 1st which meant it was sales we’re gonna do a little something different for this show so we’ve brought in our friend Stephanie Brenly from IHS market thanks glad to be back so she knows all about these numbers something you brought back brett Smith from the Center for Automotive Research who knows all about technology and by popular demand we have brought back our good friend Peter DeLorenzo Auto extremists calm indeed it has good to have you back little bit so Peters got a cold but we’re gonna force him to talk anyway all right so he’s recovered he’s gonna be good to go so okay so if you have any questions I want you to send them in via email it would be viewer mail at auto line TV your mail at auto line TV or via the YouTube chat or call us at one six two zero two eight eight six five four six that’s one six two zero two eight eight six five four six try to make it as brief as you can and and what I’d like you to do is whether it’s for Stephanie or bread or Peter what we want to do is just talk about some of the car companies at least for the first part of the show we’ll see how this all goes but so okay so let’s start at the top of the list and we’ll talk about Acura so basically Acura sales were just down slightly eleven thousand six eighty seven down 1.7% Stephanie is that significant anyway she perform that down as much as the market so I think that they’re just sort of struggling just plugging along they did see an increase in I elec sales and an increase in the already exhales I believe so those are the two products that are very Western freshest so that’s moving in the right direction mm-hmm I’m and you know we’re just kind of waiting and that NSX just kind of floats along mm-hmm just being a special awesome car sit down there that’s pretty stable performance moving them right now do you think Acker has got any special tech Brett that don’t have her stuff there yeah I feel like we’re back in high school getting our grades so I’m glad you’re grading them and not us Acura has always had Honda stuff the line stuff and Hyundai is very good especially when you look at the driver assist and some of those things that they’re doing in terms of hybrid technology powertrain technology great power trains but it’s really not part of the mix at this point for the company and last but not least Peter let so I’m gonna quote to Peter from his own work his his brand image piece from last year on auto extremists calm which I argue is is his best work of the year and it probably takes more time than one can imagine you said about Acura Acura remains an enigma and it’s in desperate need of more product juice where do you see Acura now their improved it just seemed to be characterless though it’s supposed to be Honda’s best stuff but it doesn’t quite translate I don’t think I do think the marketing is also much improved trying very hard and some of their spots resonate so generally I think overall they’re improving yeah from last year mm-hmm okay so so the next alphabetically speaking would be alpha but we’ll just talk about FCA in general so the stuff you you had some observations on how those guys were doing okay you know they announced they’re gonna go to quarterly reporting at the end of this quarter yeah so next year I’ll probably have pretty at that point we’ll have about 43 percent of the market reporting quarterly so it’s you start to wonder why would bother with monthly sales if you’re anyone else at that point I’m you’re not gonna get a lot out of it I’m looking at an a monthly basis when you’ve got that much of the market missing but you know you’re still seeing some declines in cheap and some of that is compared to a strong quarter last year in a strong April last year when he had two two versions of wrangler out and there’s definitely that’s that’s some of the wranglers decline renegade to is is struggling in its segment and i think it’s a lot to do with just there’s a lot more choice out there and now I want that rant renegade came out in 2015 I want to say maybe late 2014 so it’s been out for a few years and and it’s struggling a bit the rest of the brands are clean quite a bit sick spur cent for the year and 26% last month it’s you know that one’s having a tough one I mean you know most of what we see out of FCA we can expect right and RAM is pretty strong right now and RAM they’re pushing two generations of the truck and it’s interesting having that at some point we’ll have the conversation about how the pickup trucks are doing overall and and I’m looking at chevrolet and GMC performance versus RAM and there’s been a lot of sort of chatter about that and I think one of the points that gets lost is Ram was in production this generation eight months or so before GM’s was and and GM only to the end of the first quarter finally has the production where they want it for double cab crew cab and for all of the variants so GM may come on a bit stronger in the trucks in the second half of the year um then we wouldn’t expect her and then it would seem like from now and I think some of rams early strength has been on having both that’s been and some incentives that Rams has been doing and it’s been on and GM still ramping up the their new trucks as well so Brett one of the things that sort of interests me about FCA in general is that is the fact that if we just look at them in terms of developing alternative power trains not a whole lot there there are timeless stuff seems to be predicated on selling Pacifica’s to way mo w let me is there strategy here yeah it’s the it’s the not early adapter strategy it’s clearly not spend the money until you figure out what what to spend the money on I think they’ll Gary over the last year and a half or so you’ve seen them you’ve seen them change that quite a bit for first with the 48 volt systems that are just coming online for the gram and and for the Jeep’s that’s a big step forward for them it’s gonna be really interesting to see if that does catch on at all in the market so it’s a great market experience experiment at this point but you also see them much more actively pursuing and talking about partnerships and technology development than you did under Sergio and clearly they were gonna wait and watch to see what happened and see what really worked I think no you’re starting to see them decided it’s time to get in the game more the 48 volt systems are a good step forward with that it actually may be a really good step forward and in the marketplace over time but I think you’re gonna really start to see them do a lot more in the technology with the understanding that they don’t have a lot of resources so they’re gonna have to be pick and choose and they didn’t announce this week that the partnership with with Harmon and so moving forward in building the the sort of mobility transportable I just remember when they had that they also announced they were having the deal with Garmin and they were no longer gonna be doing their own dad systems yeah went away I mean it’s sort of a this and this Emily announced they’re going to thin out early around this week is stuff that we’re not gonna see for a long time it’s it’s some right enabling technology but it follows what we’re talking about that they’re they’re going to partner and they’re gonna take some time and jump in kind of when they think that they need to and the industry is big enough right now and some of these technologies aren’t quite proven out yet it’s it’s a definite strategy and that’s not necessarily the wrong strategy for FCAT years it’s really source thing got the resources maybe you take the shot if you don’t have the resources why I take the shot all right Peter now we’re to give you the whole whole schmear here Alfa Romeo it’s a niche brand that will always operate on the fringe of the automotive enthusiast spectrum and sales are going on tank right now and I’m one year into my three-year stove yoli’s like the product I don’t know if they’re gonna survive Alfa yeah okay the marketing is still good I mean when you see their stuff it’s okay do you like that commercial where they’re playing that sort of driving video game thing where they’re yeah that’s not one of my favorites I like some of the others Jeep Marketing is still strong right but we gotta we had a way to pull you to you that’s all right Chrysler okay this is last year is fading away and what was it sales this month it is fading away 9,000 okay let’s see what else that was that was see Fiat a complete waste of time yes it’s gone do you think it is still a complete waste of time yes I mean the 500x is improved but there’s just not enough interest in the brand just isn’t is is that a North American thing or do you think this is well it’s for sure North America thing I mean I don’t know what’s going on over in Europe here that’s an afterthought dodge dodge is the brand for people who don’t want to live in today’s world can’t say I blame them but the harsh reality is that the life expectancy of this circus is short they keep you know to keep revving up their hot rods and selling police cars I guess as long as they can do that it’s all good but eventually that’s going to run out Jeep is still the top tier of the auto extremists brand image meter still they’re still impeccable Dimon’s so so how did they accomplish that a focus consistency over over time even with regime changes different stewards of the company and all that stuff they’ve stayed focused on what cheap is and it’s paid off handsomely and you drove the gladiator I mean the gladiator is just unbelievable expensive but wow what a grand slam home run that is mm-hmm and last but not least Ram truck she said not only they are executing their trucks almost flawlessly in terms of design engineering features they’ve managed to hit it out of the park when it comes to image wrangling yeah they still still are still good so why why is there a brand like Ram or or like Jeep that that has this consistency and yet there are other brands that seem to lose their way I mean what’s what’s the what’s the what’s the magic that allows that to happen certain brands bring the best out of the people who are involved with them I think that’s the case definitely with Jeep and it’s become a case with RAM they believe in it they believe they can execute a first-rate truck which they do and they keep hammering away now must be pointed out that FCA puts a lot of money on the hoods and that’s plays a big role in with Jeep that’s a brand that over the last five six seven years has really expanded how would they kept those those non-traditional Jeeps people actually think they’re Jeeps how do they how is that branding how does that work you know it’s a rub off it’s not working out for the good and not everything works as well but even when they when they develop it when they you can point to different things that are very characteristic scent and they’ll say when they bring it out okay the Renegades not going to do it the Wranglers gonna do we know that we understand that but within its scope within its kind of with a segment within what the physics of that package will allow it will be the best at off-road that it can be and they’ve been very consistent with with holding to that and not all their products have been tremendous successes the first Patriot and compass we’re a bit of a disaster but I agree with Peter Jeep is a brand that it’s it’s they’ve done that and I think part of it is is staking it on wrangler and wrangler has come and gone in popularity it hasn’t gone completely sideways in popularity but it’s not always as popular as it is right now but they’ve just held onto that focus and and being sort of shuffled around from one company to another there’s been other brands that need to worry about sedans or they need to worry about something over here so being part of of another collection of brands has kind of enabled that to happen as well and part of it is just plain luck and mystery and and it’s that it Jeep is a brand that’s been able to do that amazingly for for a long time Jonathan Brown by the way says he loves his still vo kiai sport so another stove yo owner okay BMW sales were down 2.8% no no big deal there nothing any nothing going on there but I got but Peter back to you on this one you called them the Chevy of German luxury brands well they they made a conscious decision to to get a BMW in every garage in America at some point and they’ve got niche upon niche of vehicles I mean that they’ve parsed segments like six ways and I think but not none of that is they’ve lost their focus I mean they they still build good stuff they have too many vehicles trying to dance in too many segments and I think that’s hurt them I think I agree it probably has hurt the brand overall but when we look at what x7 has done so far the Seamus and it’s early days for that vehicle you’re gonna get early adapters and that kind of thing but so far it has brought people in to degree and market their passenger cars are still having having difficulties like everyone’s out else’s are but five was only down 19 units in April a hundred and 383 units year-to-date which means x7 isn’t hurting x5 and that’s that’s what you need it to do so x7 being as expensive as it is is only forty five hundred units so far this year but so so far these new products that they’ve been able to put in have increased their overall volume so I agree with you completely but at the same time they’re selling more cars than these $100,000 SUVs yeah thing that people are buying in in numbers the Navigator and yeah still the Escalade and still Escalade you can do that okay so now for didn’t report its numbers because they’re doing this quarterly thing but so for the last quarter they were down 1.6% I think perhaps what’s interesting are some of the ancillary things so for example today they they announced some sort of new customer service approach and and you’re shaking your head over there and the rewards program yeah a reward you know there’s like is this you know when I go to sometimes when I go to Tim Hortons to get a coffee on my way to the office in the morning they ask me if I’m using you know my rewards and I wonder if there’s any you know relationship between that and what what for is time band doing and then there was of course that big news then we talked about on the show a little bit last week but I wonder what you guys think about it vivianne the partnership with Rivia what do you think right let me go back a second and then we’ll come to ravine you know yesterday they also announced that you can get your car washed they’ll come and wash your car so it’s rub-a-dub car washers and sparkles there’s three of them come wash so wash your cards it’s this whole different world that this industry is working in mm-hmm the partnership with Rivia niz is I think fascinating it’s Vivian’s gone from being a company that no one believed in no it was it was almost in that wasn’t even an afterthought it was it was kind of just to a company that now has become maybe the next great thing at least in in the in the hype cycle Ford partnering with them makes the sense it allows them Ford to focus on what they do best and allows Rivi and a whole lot of cash it’s gonna be interesting to see that come together I think that there’s a lot of learning opportunity for both companies and this tie up does seem to be obviously Ford’s gonna get access to the skateboard to build some product that there’s lots of speculation and debate about what it will be I don’t even I don’t know for sure what it will be some guesses but most interesting though is as ford expects that they’ll be able to learn how to be a little bit more nimble and how to move a little bit more quickly from what ribbing has done and Raveena’s gonna need to learn how to industrialize mm-hmm and how did how to come to market a little bit quicker if you look at the way that Tesla sort of was born and has evolved it’s been grand statements and we’re gonna do a difference sometimes for the sake of doing it different mm-hmm in Rivia n– got quiet they just sort of developed their truck they brought talent in from the industry to help them do it moved it along when they’re ready to talk about it they started talking about it and they’ve got a full plan not only do they have ford on board they’ve got amazon on board and GM was in talks with them right so they’ve certainly from an engineering perspective got some serious players believing that there’s there’s something behind it so I think for to learn a lot from them I think we’re learning that those two companies do might be more important than the product that comes out of it the I’m skeptical of this learning I just I just think you’ve got these cultures that are so entirely different they’re not trying to own each other no no but I mean but we didn’t you know what’s the likelihood I mean it’s just like let’s let’s let’s you know speaking of Tesla will wind back the clock to when new me was started with General Motors and Toyota we’re gonna get together and Toyota was gonna teach General Motors everything about how they could be lean and how they could be efficient and you know what every single executive that was part of that program out of the company Richard Truitt just wrote a interesting blog post on automotive news about this whole culture thing and Stephanie I think it was really important Vivian was viewed and created itself it’s kind of a non-traditional startup company and they did it in southeast Michigan which a lot of people said you can’t do that kind of thing around here only Bob Lutz back with the Viper or maybe Chris Theodore with them but to do a real product and do that in a start-up mentality in southeast Michigan doesn’t happen well they’re showing that it might and the challenge that that Richard and you I think both argue is that that just isn’t gonna transfer back to Ford right and the other thing is is that so we had Robert Bollinger and here last week and you know he’s in Ferndale and he brought a truck and he has a truck and he’s making a truck and Rivi and has a big factory and in rib ian has a nice office that i drive back by on my way to work after I’ve left tim horton’s so i i’m not as as bullish as you guys are on this but peter bullish i said it’s gonna be fascinating and interesting to watch right and I don’t see my guess is it it’s not a long long term partnership right well I’ll be it being at 25 I’ll just be interested to see what those guys do so Peter you called 40 new card-carrying jekyll-and-hyde car company what does that mean and are they still yeah they are I mean they take two steps forward and take about three back and you know the jury’s still out the jury’s not out on Hackett I mean Hackett is a placeholder I firmly believe that I I think his vision for the future for it is is not all that great and they’re still the same old forward and they’re trying to figure out how they’re gonna make their way forward it’s a giant we’ll see as this is Arabian Ford partnership as we say in extremis it’s a giant we’ll see I just you know for just does some really good things and then they just seem to shoot themselves in the head that I don’t I don’t know so how long does the is the place held meaning Hackett well I wrote a column a while ago that Bill Ford called me on when I had I said that he really he really needs to have a succession client and they don’t well they do but they don’t I mean Joe Henrichs is the guy who’s running forward which makes me happy I mean because he’s focusing on by the way while you guys are out playing with your skateboards and stuff we need to make money and he’s the guy who’s in charge of that and I’m I’m very bullish on that part of Ford the rest of it is kind of touchy-feely esoteric that isn’t gonna pay off for them so how long is it gonna take I don’t know but they’re lucky they have Henrik’s there because they can the nuts and bolts nitty-gritty of the business he will make sure they’re doing properly getting the cars built getting the trucks built quality all that stuff I mean you can’t phone that in so at least they have that foundation going on as far as HACC and I I don’t know I grew that Hendricks is really good at what he does but back to the ribbing thing it’s interesting the timing wise real quick is because it’s also done in a contract year and you’re looking at where would you build that how is this is the UAW contract and you’re looking now at a time where Ford’s made a very big commitment to what looks like outside builders and how does Joe and the team deal with that with the UAW going forward whether or not there’s a product that comes soon we don’t know but that’s another one these dynamics that comes in in a year where you don’t want a lot of weird dynamics happening mm-hmm Stephanie’s agreeing all right so we’re gonna move on to General Motors and so I’ve got a whole bunch of questions here from the audience that deal with General Motors and for those of you that I’m not getting to your questions we’ll see what we can do okay so there’s gonna be a whole Schmeer so try to remember all these things Joyce cleaning lady says why doesn’t Chevy sell volt tech to some other OAM Danny from Cleveland says distinguished panel that’s you guys any updated rumors on the new Corvette might there be a catalog version of it down the road people are suggesting at the reveal date of 7 18 19 is actually the Nurburgring lap time if it is it be behind the Corvette zo6 in the Camaro zl1 and Chuck crunchy says especially to you what about the new leaked info about the c8 and Ray Micro it says GM has fallen way behind on Silverado sales and Camaro sales what do you think about the new Camaro news today it’s got a new front end will the new lt1 package and SS front grille be enough so who wants to take any of those well as the 718 is not the Nurburgring lap time that is truly the announcement day there’s no and even if it were this would be the the base version of that car not but yes the eight yeah yeah so it would be as a respectable time if it were but I agree with Peter I don’t think so you sort of a sort of a address the Silverado sales versus the Rams they all saying this is just a matter of I think part of it for sure is as inventory and well there have been incentives on it I think GM has been pretty as careful as they can to use incentives in a smart and strategic way and it that doesn’t mean you don’t have them it means you’re careful about when you use them mmm and and comparing it to ram ram had an eight month headstart on production i’m so we really are the next year’s will see not that Rams not doing well not that it won’t continue to do well but we up until now we really haven’t seen both trucks with full inventory and we should see that in the next few months catalog version of the c8 you know that is if it happens which I I don’t think it will happen it’s five years from now and I really don’t think it’s going to happen and to you the voltec so this is basically so they they’ve taking the Chevy Volt out of production and that uses the Volt technology and technology why not get sold to somebody so why don’t you think that they’re I mean do you think it’s saleable and do you think somebody would buy it everything saleable at some point but I think it’s I think it’s probably um not everything almost everything I think the reality is that they would first it would be tough to just offload that and second um it gives a competitor pretty good startup on any technology whether GM believes in it or not anymore pretty interesting technology so I think it’s doubtful it’s an interesting idea it’s it’s certainly one that you have to stop and think about for a minute but I think not I think generally GM has not gotten nearly enough credit for the bolt and the bolt I mean they didn’t market bolt at all they didn’t market volt at all so they kind of got what they asked for but generally the technology was really really good absolutely grew that they did a great job and they and they’ve continued to build and iterate on those I there’s the decision the strategy to go and say will be IC e or B V and walk away from the plug-in hybrid I think is going to be an interesting one I you know it they’re difficult decisions to make and capital on how you’re going to spend it which way you’re gonna go and certainly there’s some logic to why have to propulsion systems on board that is an inherently expensive proposition and a lot of the market is going and trying to do that James decided to go this way and really only time is going to tell whether or not that was the right way to go or whether or not in four or five years we see them bring back another plug-in hybrid alright so final question don’t ask you guys before we take a quick break and and that is so on the earnings call this this earlier this week Mary Barra insisted that as we were talking earlier about the four driven deal and there was the as you mentioned before or the General Motors Rivia n– talks that didn’t go anywhere and and Mary Barra said consistently we will have an electric truck we will not let our limit our leadership in trucks or any vs yeah okay so here’s my question okay electric pickup trucks are fun to talk about and you know that you know and again going back to Bollinger last week you know he’s you know when I asked him is this somebody second car and he says well maybe it’s their third or fourth car or I mean not their first and you know he’s got a full blown pickup truck that can do everything a pickup truck is this the answer to a question nobody’s asking is there somebody who’s like clamoring for an electric pickup truck that I’m not aware of what do you think there well I could say that about the BV movement completely because you know it’s it’s gonna be the biggest selling job in automotive history is trying to convince people that you know put your IC e away and drive this back is there it’s to me it’s it’s like a it’s a cool idea but with really no legs beyond well we’ve got one if you want to be V pick up or we got one I just don’t get it but I don’t know Bret what do you think yeah it’s a good question and where is the real value in this and if you think about a full-size pickup and a battery for a full-size pickup that’s a really big battery and a really heavy battery and the heavier gets means the more you got to get battery and and this kind of cycle will continue so I I’ve never been I never understood the business model for it but so many are out there reaching for it is it because three years ago Elan musk said we’re going to do one that everyone else said we should do one too because if we don’t we’re not cool or is there really a business model there and and maybe is that business model a lot of people don’t use their pickup trucks like pickup trucks a lot of them increasing they’re using them more as style vehicles they could be a style vehicle for price and you could do some of the pickup stuff once in a while so maybe there’s something there I think it goes back in and eight years or ten years ago now we had a conference in Detroit called the business of plug man and it was interesting because someone from General Motors as we were creating this conference said you know the most important thing we got to figure out here is a business for doing this is a business for plugging that in and ten years later we’re gonna do another conference on the business of plugging in Detroit and it still to me is this question what is the business model beyond just the excitement it’s a good thing there’s some fun vehicles how do you create that real business model and point the test line yeah okay but what else so I think that challenge whether it be the pickup or the others is still out there I agree the challenge is very much still out there and what we’re looking at is as regulations and sort of government just pushing the the industry in this direction and the the difficulty becomes yeah it doesn’t make any sense right now but if you if you buy into the idea that in 2040 or 2050 or 2030 where we’re all v’s again you still aren’t going to get there if you don’t develop it and if you wait until 2030 and say okay now we’ve got everything else done now we’ve got to get around to the pickup truck because we really are going to get rid of our icees eventually someday then it’s going to cost too much to do it and they’re gonna have difficulty doing it so I see I do have really it’s a push on consumers we’re still we’re seeing yes EB sales are going out because they didn’t used to be there and because they’re getting a little bit stronger in terms of range but it’s still a push and it’s a push to break it from sort of that niche an early adapter into mainstream and we haven’t done that yet model three aside we haven’t braved it into a mainstream on this and that’s still way down the road so the questions about business case and business viability are real and I think that’s one of the things that makes it very difficult for auto makers right now trying to invest in the space trying to still maintain their ICS as long as they can as long as they need to it’s probably the most difficult capital time that the industry has ever had you you as a company you need to make some level of investment or a plan if you’re FCA for partnerships or other companies that are in that same boat you have to either make the investment or make the plan for how to deal with these technologies that are coming down the road and spending your money on things that you’re not going to see a massive return on for 10 15 20 years it’s a tough time I don’t even slice all right we’re and take a break here from our sponsors and then we’ll be back and some takeaway lyrica Nexus offers a parental controls application with geofencing that sends notifications regarding driving behavior and location including curfew alerts acceleration alerts and speed alerts all delivered to a smartphone application that includes vehicle location driver notifications and a report card of driving history including notifications when predefined geographic boundaries are crossed for more information visit lear calm [Applause] [Music] [Applause] the world is changing in an ever-increasing pace no matter what the mode of transportation there is always the need for an efficient propulsion system and that’s exactly what poor Warner has been doing since the earliest days of the automotive industry we create innovative mobility technologies that reduce energy consumption and emissions while improving performance our proven track record has made us an industry leader in forward-looking propulsion solutions for combustion hybrid and electric vehicles and we are back and Peter Camaro is not doing too badly in the first quarter they were up 2.5 percent we had that question earlier that someone asked whether they just announced a redo front end for the SS and an lt1 v8 package or whatever it’s called right which i think is really good the problem is the redo of the Camaro before they got to this latest freshening was not good the car was very to me as summon his immersed in GM history and design especially design that car was a huge disappointment and guess what Mustang which looks better outsold it and then of course the Challenger which you know whether you like it or not I mean the things got great presence on the road and I just think that was a major miss but by GM design now this freshening I’m optimistic about it and they’ve also added content which they needed to do they needed to be able to check a box and get a hot v8 Camaro for not very much money which they just did but that was a rare miss for GM design I mean they don’t usually mess up their their performance cars like that but that was a that this generation Camaro which has just been revised was a mess so let me ask you I mean I I know that the big popular subject that is gonna be going forward and we heard that one question about it already the the Corvette c8 General Motors announced that they were adding 400 employees to their Bowling Green plant to make this it seems to me that when we look at cars like the Corvette or like a Camaro or even like a Mustang that they basically had this this sharp rise in terms of demand and then it’s just falling off a cliff well that’s traditional with the pony car segment that segment is whichever’s the latest thing sells the most and then that kind of goes down now when I was here last we talked about the CA the reason GM decided to go forward with the mid-engine car is because they realized that they could make a business case for building that car within reason of the current cars cost structure so they think that when people really get a feel for the car and understand what you can get for the money as opposed to sports cars costing twice as much that they’re gonna have a sustainable thing going out into the CA because all my malls within GM say that they’re trying to tamp down the internal enthusiasm because the car is that good mm-hmm you guys have anything you want to say about the CA before were you looking forward to seeing it yeah all right it’s only been how many decades since we’ve heard about a mid-engine Corvette they’ve had something like seven mid-engine concepts thought of people are thrilled to see it okay so we have a phone call so could you please bring that in Katie hey guys this is Danny Kola from Cleveland Ohio I got a question for the auto extremists I believe that he has real good eye for design like to know what he thinks about the design of the new Cadillac gt5 sedan thank you take care bye well to be fair I haven’t seen the current person my initial thought was they showed a sport version and then they showed a kind of a today what was it a premium premium inspire you mean the sport and they’ve got this GM designs has got this design signature and the seat filler so in the back that you have yeah that’s the sport version which sort of they painted it black and de-emphasize it which to me is better but the the premium version well it’s what it’s called as a gesture you’ve seen it on everything especially the Asian cars and I just think it doesn’t it doesn’t come off well from what I’ve seen in pictures it just doesn’t it just doesn’t seem like a Cadillac especially with that design gesture now the sport they black it out I’m willing to give it a shot but I am not seeing the car in person so all right so continuing with our theme here and for those of you who waiting for doctor data I threw him out even even though they prepared a slide I just think this is too much fun talking about this stuff he’s at Tim Hortons collecting points loyalty points so Honda so Stephanie you you had some interesting observations that I saw that yeah well you know Honda is 100 passport is one of the new vehicles for this quarter we’ve had a lot of new vehicles launched in this club additive name plates for different brands and and I think we’ve got they haven’t double-checked but more in a quarter than I can recall seeing in quite some time in Honda passport is one of those and you know the passport has done a fair job at this point really early kind of hard to say if it’s going to be a super success overall but initially what we’re seeing is that it’s not taking much out of civic I mean sorry out of CRV or out of pilot pilot was is down about 500 units here on here and passport had 2900 units in April and what was my number for the year more than that for the year so far so it looks like it’s adding into it which it needs to do accord of course is down again but we sort of expected a little ups and downs and an accord and if they are drawing some passim accord attenders are sticking around for passport that’s fine that’s good for Honda so it looks like that product initially anyway is going to be able to help bring out some volume for them and make some consumers happy but it most importantly it doesn’t seem to be taking that much away from pilot mm-hmm I’ve spent a lot of time at the dealer the Honda dealer the other day looking one over it’s pretty good it’s a good passport yeah it’s pretty good mm-hm it’s it’s a pilot and slightly shorter but they did a really nice job with it yeah without the third row which mm-hmm without the torture chamber that the reference is a selling feature which is pretty much a third row practically anything yeah I unless unless it it’s painted yellow and you know it has several rows of seats in there it’s those third rows are better yeah it’s it’s a full row maybe just came up with a new line huh maybe sometimes Honda does get lost in this they make really good cars and pretty darn good series and fabulous engines almost to the point where it’s boring they’re so good at some of that stuff and they don’t get a lot of talk and they don’t get a lot of hype but they do some really nice stuff another thing I sort of wonder about and this is sort of jumping around a little little bit here but okay so you know you mention the Accord and you know it’s it’s a midsize sedan it’s sales are slowly down that when you know we talked about forward earlier we talked about General Motors earlier that they’re almost complete de-emphasis of sedans and and what you’re left with are essentially Honda Toyota Nissan Kia in HoN die making sedans and and you could say FCA except for like the 300 is so old that the that count I mean what’s the deal I mean it is is Detroit’s eating part of the market because they just are not making things that are all that appealing I think L boot looks great but I mean it’s like nobody buys one well you know we’re in a bit of a readjustment and you went from sedans being a large part of the market to being a small part of the market and yes there’s some that are gonna go away and and hopefully they’ll come back to the drawing board because I still think there’s there’s for what if sedans are 25% of the market give or take you know that’s still a large number of vehicles but you know we think it’s about a million of something what’s wrong with it you know one of the things I think could be exciting it could be interesting is when you kind of free people up from having a sedan that has to act like it’s a big family car sedans are more expressive and if you say okay I’m actually going to talk to somebody who wants a sedan not somebody who’s shopping for everything and settles on the right price or compromises here or there we could end up with some really cool sedans and a couple of years that but where would they come from that’s that is a good question I think that for its kind of walking away from that a little bit too quickly I’m getting nervous watching them kind of pull back on that GM hasn’t totally walked out of Malibu they’ve walked out of Cruze and they’re leaving the door open a little bit so we’ll see what they do is ct5 in person looks pretty terrific I have the same concerns that you do about that gesture with a pre-owned one and the pre and actually I don’t like it on the sport as much either because I think that that black and the back just kind of makes it look a little less expensive than it should but from the front there’s a lot to like about that car overall I heard from my moles that it drives great and that’s what I’ve heard too so there’s the opportunity and and Cadillac is talking about going for a sedan and tender rather than going for at somebody right away so I think there’s life versions the CT five is that car exist because there was demand for that in the US market or was er demand in China well I was gonna go so you said it looks you’ve heard it drives great I wonder how many people really care about that anymore it’s sad to think but you know you what people are buying and what they’re driving and that that thrilled that that feeling of a sports sedan market is getting smaller in this country now in China another discussion well will be all driving battery-powered skateboards while China goes through their muscle carrier I’m convinced you know we’ll all be saying wow we’re really doing well here and then we’ll longingly see videos from China that’s where all the muscle cars won all right so moving on from Honda will go to Hyundai they make sedans yes they do now and they introduced a new Sonata just a couple ever revealed it looks really good I you know they they they did this is the New York show and and for those of you who go to you to the auto line after-hours YouTube channel you can go back a couple weeks we did a show from there and we did we looked at that you know but again it gets back what they were doing they’re saying okay the the the 2011 senado is when they came out with you know very expressive that completely changed things than they pull back hold back back and now they’re saying pulling pulling back didn’t is gonna do it no and therefore we have to do something else but was another interesting vehicle and we actually have a question about this from Seth Bullis how do you guys think things like the Hyundai venue will do against crossovers like the passport passport I know it’s no I mean there’s a new is is small and and really it’s it’s an entry level vehicle it’s your first car it’s the first touch of the brand and it’s meant to bring people in and then it could be thought of as an accent hatchback replacement it’s really that’s where it’s going to set it’s small it’s going to be less expensive and it’s your it’s your way in so in terms of volume it’s not going to be significantly high but in terms of getting introducing a first-time buyer whether or a first new hardware to the Hyundai brand it’s going to be something so last year Peters you wrote such a once promising brand what the hell happened is is that it has your has your opinion changed of that well they have made investments in talent on the design front and especially on the engineering front the drivability front yeah that is going to start to pay off so I think maybe they were stuck in neutral and now they’ve decided to go forward since I last wrote that so mmm-hmm I cautiously optimistic optimistic in going in the right direction so we have to mention Genesis in this regard and what’s your take on them well you know on the one hand you could say what the hell are they doing on the other hand I kind of applaud them for their losing there on every Genesis they sell I’m sure they’re losing a bunch but they’re sticking with it they’re sticking with it and I really applaud that and I do believe it they do stick with it it’s gonna pay off for them mm-hmm I agree and I think that that that’s been interesting to watch with their commitment they had some missteps and mostly in trying to figure out how to do the dealership thing and at first thinking it could be dueled with Hyundai and then saying no and having to go back to the drawing board a lot of what happened to their sales last year was not having dealerships and and realizing they had to go back and start over I’m which delayed a lot of what they want to do but they knew I think initially that it was 13 it was great 10 to 15 years to get this brand off the ground well Alexis Ted yeah so they’re they’re not I’m sure they’re not necessarily happy that they had to redo some things but I think the ability to do that and the willingness to make those changes and still go forward was baked in right they were they knew they were committed to it and it’s still gonna take some time for them to get their legs under them but I mean well in the the other the other company related to that is is Kia apparently they were up 1.6 percent last month tell your eyes outside the Telluride it’s a tiger it’s really it’s really caught fire every review I’ve read has been very positive sales were 451 year-to-date even last month they were I think the arranger about the same as a ranger which has gotten so much publicity it seems to be as you say early home run which is impressive it’s and actually its third seat or third row is is fairly okay I mean again nobody wants to ride in these things but it’s fairly okay but not the thing that struck me about that vehicle and I just wonder how long something like this could be sustained is that for I think if that car maxes out at something like $42,000 44 ok 44 and I mean and for that money you’re getting like everything right I mean just just like I just keep putting it in putting it in putting it in and I mean nobody else is providing that much stuff in that size vehicle well that’s kind of the Korean I’m gonna give you more than you expects you cuz you get for this amount of money so their value proposition isn’t about being cheap it’s about giving you more than you expect for that dollar amount right and that’s very much part of it but think – they’re gonna they’re gonna have you know an explorer beating down the door right quickly and the Explorer does have more technology and more power trains and a longer history so they need to make sure that they have something to compete with then I’m tali-rite is good but it does not gonna have the powertrain options that Ford is gonna have for one which means it probably won’t but does anybody cross shop these things do they cross shop I mean cross hapa I mean does somebody say well you know I want to buy a Ford Explorer because you know we’ve been a Ford family forever but you know it happens does happen I mean explorers one of the great brand names in this business and Ford has probably the best dealer body collectively in this business so and the product is great yeah the new one is the new one is everything the old one was never gonna be this one is and better than even early explorers really in terms of what you can offer a consumer it does them to haven’t driven it yet but everything on paper and looking at it at the show it’s it should be tremendous and so well tell you or tell you right and Hyundai’s palisade to are really strong products they’re gonna have once once Ford comes on yeah it’s it could be a difficult year all the same I think so carve out there there’s place they won’t compete with explorers but it will always be lower priced it’s always gonna be just a little bit lower well yeah when you really look at Telluride like you were saying Gary you know for forty four grand you’d have to spend twenty grand more for the other brand to get what that has what grains a lot that’s a lot alright we’ll get to these phone calls here in a moment alright so so I’m always reminded of that Albert Brooks comedy bet phone calls from Americans yeah okay at the New York show Lincoln showed the Corsair what do you think I think it’s wrong I think their Lincoln has developed a personality and a brand over the last four or five years that Corsair is another execution of that the aviator is probably the stronger one of the two but Coursera is really strong especially given that’s an entry level and a compact so entry level in that luxury space so it doesn’t have some of the costs that you can put into the aviator hmm I’m and again they’ve done a really nice job differentiating it from the escape yet keeping some of the the real customer features that they’ll be appreciated across both so I think they’ve done a really good job with that we were talking about brands and consistency earlier and I feel like this is always going to be a common thread but we talked about Jeep having done it for so long the interesting thing for Lincoln will be this is where they’ve gotten to now and can are they at a point where they can maintain that for the 1020 thirty years that they need to because they’ve really they really hit a sweet spot I’m dead yeah they were lighted on this packaging with this and the focus on the interiors is and the focus on experience so she says ten twenty thirty years is linking to me around in ten twenty thirty years Peter really let’s even try for five years you know it’s good they’ve done a remarkable job in last two or three years described well now aviator alone is kind of propel them forward for okay what that Cadillac ten twenty thirty years yeah right yeah optimism abounds somebody like optimism of bounds I thought their organ I will like Cadillac to see more consistency yeah I thought they’re all gonna be Robo taxis in twenty years anyways so possibly Mazda we we had the CEO of Mazda on a few weeks ago and their sales are not looking good you know and good but I will say their marketing is looking good much better their car great all right so so their marketing is good that cars look great for the month they were down fourteen point five percent for the year they’re down fifteen and change it’s always been an afterthought brand in the u.s. except for the enthusiast fanboys who you know keep saying no these are great these are great but that doesn’t translate to the mainstream they’ve also tried over the last two or three years to move much more upmarket and it’s been a tough move for them and it’s I they they keep using the word premium and and they say that’s mind-master premium and I I kind of wish they didn’t use that word because they’re not trying to be a luxury brand but now we’re leaving trying to be an entering luxury brand they’re just trying to say they’re special and these are the the elements the craftsmanship the dedication to engineering and the dedication to making sure I mean they feel one with the vehicle all of these things our it sounds funny but there’s ways they can do this stuff right they come to what they call a must a premium but here in the states we hear that and we assume that that means that it’s luxury and I don’t think it’s really trying to be a luxury play I wish that so it ends up putting kind of the wrong cat but who would we premium from that’s the wrong word what Buick I don’t know that’s one of the reasons why it’s not really a great word a really what they really are trying to say that’s just Mastiff personality and Mazda style and and they chose the word premium and I don’t think that word is working as well as know as we would like but the products are strong hopefully they’ve put a lot of work into reevaluating marketing over the last two years with Dino bring you know as coming on and and the feel alive campaign that we’re seeing now as part of that work so hopefully they can find a way to make that connection it’s the problem they know that they have they know that there are buyers out there that appreciate that I mean I think I’ll have to do is just look at their sales know they know they got a problem okay let’s move on we didn’t really talk about lumiose moving to domestic about Hyundai in terms of product design everything else but that move I really alright so this is the former chief operating officer of Nissan North America and and so so you think this could be trouble why his emphasis and you know cranking it out and selling you know I don’t know not treating dealers very well and so I don’t know what Hyundai thinks they’re gonna get and of course there are people on the other side who say he’s the genius and all that but overall I think it’s a wrong move for Hyundai okay chasing the volume train for the sake of chasing a volume doesn’t really work you changed if you start chasing share and if you charge start chasing volume as the objective and forget about profitability we know what that works so so we didn’t even get to like half the things and we’re done with an hour all right we’re gonna okay we’ve got a phone call about Evie vehicles profitability let’s let’s hear that one yes good afternoon um this is Emilio Ortiz from Denver Colorado I have a question in regards to the projected timeline for profit abilities on EB vehicles I keep hearing on the show that it may be ten or fifteen years out before they may be profitable however when we see the production and built in demand that’s guaranteed with the regulations and requirements in China this year producing over two million EB vehicles I was wondering if that’s going to affect a time frame of you know dumb reduced and costs through well scale that’s gonna be developing in China thank you thank you bright give me that one yeah that’s actually a great great caller lead into this um we often look at this from a North American standpoint and clearly this is going to be driven the electrification is going to be driven by China and to a lesser extent Europe China has ways to make their market work that we don’t have gather dictate okay yeah they could dictate um so they can get to the volume distill the question becomes how expensive is that battery and how good is that battery and there are so many wonderful things happening a battery development that that are just really going but it’s still really uncertain as to whether that battery can get to a cost and usability effectiveness or cost-effectiveness usability effectiveness in the next five years ten years but it may happen and there are things that could happen and I think it’s always dangerous from us in North America to look at just the US market and say it’ll never work here it’s a stupid idea well if it works somewhere else that spin off me it may help here but it’s also dangerous to say well because they’re gonna do it there it’s going to work here because there are very different policy actions right did you describe dictatorship in China that can affect those things well I’d also wonder in terms of China their biggest problem is air pollution ranked and what how do they generate coal tricity increasingly from renewables but coal is absolutely the funnel I mean it’s not it’s not a environmental policy issue in China it’s clearly an industrial policy if the pilot if it gets better good indifferent but it’s an industrial policy to leapfrog the rest of the world right it’s enough on it right we got another phone call here from Dale about it keeps changing so I don’t know what it’s about this is Dale Leonard’s out of Cleveland Ohio first off hey Peter D good seeing in that chair buddy hey I have an advertising question I’d like the panel’s opinion on you know for almost 50 years Ford his used the slogan built Ford Tough now they’re using the slogan built Ford proud I’d like everyone’s opinion on what they think of this switch I’m totally against it I think Ford you know should remain with what they had that has worked for them thank you very much great show take care bye well Bill Ford tough was always the truck can I write and they made a conscious decision that the truck campaign was always the best even in recent times their truck campaigns have been great and it was a conscious decision to get some rub off on that and had the word proud because they believe in what they’re doing the jury’s still out and if I’m not mistaken I thought they still is built for tough on truck but I don’t know give it some time but I’d think twice before it was my call I’d think twice before walking away from the bill for self or I’ll take a different angle on that campaign for the last from 2017 through 18 Ford seem to almost try to distance itself from being a car manufacturer it was cool to not be a car manufacturer to be a mobility company last fall during the NFL football season they came back out with this program with this campaign that said you know it didn’t so bad to build cars ya know the tone of that campaign was really good it was all this other stuff is good but we still build really great stuff for today and tomorrow and the next day yeah I think that was part of you described well expanding it to the whole range but also to go back and remind themselves as much as anyone else yeah that was for them as much right any thing on that no all right so I was since we’re past four o’clock and promised you guys an hour and I want to I want to wrap it up with a question that we got here from Bill Warner who is the founder and chairman of the Amelia Island Concours d’Elegance foundation and so I will let you guys think about this for a moment what marks will not be in the US market in five years so who wants to take the first crack at this well fancy yeah yeah and I’m really concerned about a from now right Fiat Alfa Romeo five years isn’t as long as it sounds that’s not very long to say all right ten years I think you know the but we might be at this it’s more about which brands are coming in I think that we’re what we have the harder thing is gonna be the new ones to break in xote said that they were gonna come today Tesla Tesla is one that shouldn’t in ten years will it be will it not be I think it will be Holden taken over but not exist well there’ll be a Tesla love Toyota bought it and shut that plant down and started building I you know writing off a brand isn’t quite as easy as it sounds partially because there’s still there’s still people committed to making it happen but people were somebody somebody asked a question earlier rate my turrets saying what about reviving Pontiac I mean so we we had we had Pontiac go away I’m reading a marketing book right now that came out I’m to say maybe in 94 about and it’s you know lauding Saturn I mean and on a way right auscultation automobiles gone away Mercury’s gone away what we’re seeing though is with battery bees the ones that are being planned a lot of them are being planned to have different name plates within a brand so we’re seeing a lot more coming in the in the form in the next few years Zions going away Diane’s gone away I’m so we may actually see an expansion before we see a contraction is that good Peter yeah it’s good I mean imagine is yeah I think works I can see must own that maybe not be here any just be in Japan stay the way they’re going it was usually went away basically except for trucks right but did you ever think about their you know just a little diversion here the Joe Isuzu remember that markets like way overshot the brand and the product but it was fat12 and you’re still talking about it yes it must have been good yeah nothing to connect to the brand but it must have been good memorable alright you got anything okay so so your business of plugging in thing okay I don’t want you to leave before so you you did this 10 years ago you’re gonna do this one next month month after June 25th in Detroit next energy next energy that’s name of the place ranks energy is a organization not-for-profit in Detroit that looks at future energy technologies so we have in fact that’s where the BPI started meeting room in their meeting room 2080 I the business of putting in sorry excuse me acronyms it’s what it’s all about in 2008 actually about the day before the economy crashed and that’s where the discussion came from game we’re talking about stuff that’s out there we need to identify those business models okay so can can civilians away we have a lot of humans people who are just ordinary people can register and go to this conference because we’ve had a lot of people who are who are thinking that we don’t know that we’re talking about when it comes to things like plugging in yes certainly it’s it’s open for registration Karthik I roll over here uh-huh so how does somebody find out about this go to card group org car group org and it should be there should be there it’s it’s it is is one of the colors point out it is a really big challenge and potentially opportunity potentially opportunity yes it’s one that we in North America tend to think is just not gonna happen all right Stephanie you want to plug anything no not really I think that that while there’s there’s difficulty in getting to evey there’s enough commitment behind it that it’s you can’t say it’s not gonna happen no it’s a night I think it’s a push on American consumers I don’t think American consumers are coming along as fast as well seeing this allons-y that we’ve we’ve got many people out there who just think that you guys are just smoking something because Jamin says Ford and General Motors are likely not to be here in 10 years partly due to their dealership model and partly due to them falling three to seven years behind Tesla in evey technology it’s definitely I just want you to realize that and and III want you to I want you to think about that and I will think about in California with all of the policies they were about nine percent plug-in vehicles last year so you know the policies can work maybe until the technology catches up all right Peter doesn’t believe that for a second any any any parting parting words it’s a wonderful life a wonderful life it is a full life all right it’s my new it’s your new mantra yeah so you’re just gonna be repeating that the 20th anniversary of extremist ISM she the first June first and one day the week is June first I haven’t looked what will the will be will will that be when will nevertheless when you when when it’s not gonna be the last is is that is is that going to be when the 20th anniversary edition of auto extremists comes out yeah I mean first yeah either that day the day before the day or whatever whatever that Wednesday is so it’s just got to be the Wednesday so it’s not you’re not gonna like given them in first is a Saturday you won’t put that issue out them now alright so Auto extremist dot-com 20th anniversary June for an open twenty years yes I remember was just a little startup there some guy over there that was causing all this trouble yeah still they’re in trouble right all right we’re gonna we’re gonna we’re gonna end this because we could just keep going okay good you know I appease we wean even get to Nissan and and boy if somebody read what you about Nissan last year I would shirt response I would change the name back to dots and let’s start over and start over all right Brett Smith Center for Automotive Research thank you for coming back and for being here Steph I you just mark it it’s good to be back again good stuff Alice in Peter you know like people are out there cheering that you’re here and you know the marching are Ellis sign I think that’s good to be here so thanks for coming and so thank all of you for joining us on next week doctor data we’ll be back from Hortons and we’ll take it from there so appreciate your all turning in so thank you auto line after-hours is brought to you by Bridgestone tires your journey our passion Lear a global leader in automotive seating and electrical systems and by BorgWarner propulsion solutions that support a clean energy efficient world visit our website auto line TV where you can watch us live Thursday afternoons get your daily news fix with auto line daily and in depth analysis and interviews of auto line this week there’s all that and much more at Auto wyandotte TV [Music] and a new approach to dealerships dealerships do have troubles right now that people aren’t comfortable or happy when they go in it but I was having this conversation with somebody earlier today yeah it’s so difficult and you have to haggle and I’m like you don’t really you could just walk in and pay the price that they give you and yeah it might take a couple hours to paperwork because it does but you don’t have to make it difficult you could make it easy if you wanted to and I think that the consumers just still want to feel like they’ve got the best price that they can get especially on something that’s so expensive especially in something that at least in that moment you tend to be a little bit emotional about you know you’re about to write a check for whatever or you know sign your life away and that all plays into it and and the models that have been one price the models that have tried to strip it down haven’t succeeded if we haven’t Saturn cyan both of them went for this sort of one price we’re gonna we’re gonna make it easy even Hyundai though I mean remember they had that pure price campaign where you know you would you’d find the number and that’s that’s what it is I still hear from the people at the Costco auto program every year they’re pointing out about how many cars that they’re selling and this is the same sort of a thing where you know you your Costco member you go online and and you get this price and and you know you take that you’re the dealer and and it’s just like this is the price I mean there’s the you know triple-a I think as a buying program and you know you know it always occurred to me that okay people say well you know the most expensive things you’re buying your life are your house in your car and and you know so you basically negotiate for both but it seems to me that okay a car is a manufactured item the cars is something that that you know you add up the costs and you come up and this is what the price is and why there’s high dling well there isn’t there is a price for the dealer to buy it from the manufacturer we’re putting that next step and gives you the haggle room right want to do it I mean and I mean I mean I just wonder whether I mean you is you know we mentioned Amazon you know investing in Rivia nigh mean is is Amazon going to – you know disintermediate dealers at some point what do you think that could have battery-electric urban delivery vehicle yeah my answer but you don’t think that that like somebody is going to be able to go online and just basically buy a car well you can already you can do that yeah you can do that now carvanha any number of places you saw a couple days ago a license plate what’s wrong with covina it was the first time i saw in me somebody did that right is this another commercial and then they deliver it to you well we go to the the giant thing and watch your car yeah bow down and you put the giant coin a giant slot doesn’t pull the giant hand at all no you bring a giant one of those giant checks yeah you just want from Publishers Clearing House here’s here’s an interesting thing in three more minutes guys and I’ll let you go very rector from Indy says there are four point one eight eight million unsold new vehicles if you are in charge what would you do to reduce that number to the industry standard how serious is this for General Motors Ford and FCA well it’s serious because I’ve been saying for a while and I’m not the only one that we’re heading for soda yeah how deep that so down is so anyone’s guess but the Stephanie mint so he talked the manufacturer nervous and as it should be and we are looking at a slowing exploring market and and column I wrote a while ago affordability mmm-hmm it’s the next frontier because things are just too expensive I mean look at what’s happening trucks I mean who would have thought that you know seventy thousand would be a you know and it’s interesting because they’ve been able to charge those prices and I think for some of the the truck buyers you talk about buyers that are doing the more for styled and for for usability but when you start looking at somebody who’s who’s towing something that’s you know a million dollars all of a sudden when they decide to spy 80,000 on their truck because their truck has more features it starts to make sense wonder why somebody would do that so there is that that opportunity there but I think affordability is an issue and part of the reason is is tide of the economy depending on what kind of economic slowdown we have and how deep it is whether or not people are comfortable with with how much they can stretch and push and we’ll have the question again we had the question if the recession time will have it again what will people going to do are they going to go to a smaller car that’s less expensive and has all the equipment they want into it or are they going to buy a car that’s the size that they have now with less content either way automaker profitability gets affected they’ve been very good showing restraint on incentives for the last ten years mm-hmm with the number 4.1 million I think is what I read this morning something of that many car sitting in inventory you start to wonder who’s gonna be the first to flinch and this industry really needs to be careful about that because it can get us we’ve seen this before they can get us into a lot of trouble but there’s a absolute addiction to it if you look and you’ve got to move product all of a sudden incentives look good they do in the last couple of years we even though we’ve a high inventory right now there has been consistent production adjustments and hopefully we still keep doing that and that is still lover to be used in this well it’s bright I mentioned earlier that this is a with with is all three of them yeah so with Ford General Motors in FCA so what’s the likelihood you’re going to slow any plant down you’re gonna put anybody on furlough you know versus saying you know what we’re gonna keep the keep the lines running and we’re just gonna stack some money on the hood of these things to get them off the dealer Lots it really adds to the complexity of it being a killing or being a UAW contract here they’ve been go ahead stuff well with GM making their announcement last year instead of this year mm-hmm maybe that works last year about studying the plants down and when they made that announcement Lordstown Jim I’m trying and these structures are guns with that and Mary as not Mary Barra has not back down on that really at all she said this is what we need to do for the company as a whole and they’ve worked through this best they can and do you know work with people as much as possible but even in their earnings this week they basically said we’re gonna make sure that everybody who has a job would there are no motors will heavy there’s an opportunity to have a job where some of them require moving and and some people won’t take them right and you can debate the fairness of that for no reason because you’re not gonna get anywhere break you know but they are trying to do something within that space um but that’s the kind of strength that the automakers know what I need to demonstrate during these these talks and there’s that much more complicated by the current political environment which certainly does encourage the idea of building more cars here even if we can’t sell them well I’m sorry with you Peter on this this whole affordability thing I think that is just it’s just getting crazy and when when you know you’re looking at people having to pay back you know college loans and and you know the the increasing price of their cellphone plans and and you know and on and on and on and then you’re looking at these these vehicle advices it’s like back to that point and vehicles like the generation prior did the the thrill that we got from right driving in a Corvette or Camaro there are still people out there to do that and young people but it’s becoming less and less and less and so as they don’t cut those people don’t enter the market or enter it in a very different perspective that’s gonna change things especially with with the affordability that you’re talking about yeah that’ll be interesting too because sometimes they sort of common answers well will though go to a subscription to a leasing to it to something in that environment which really ends up being a short term solution because the benefit of buying a car you do get to keep it at the end when you’re done paying it off right if you’re 25 in starting a family at 35 that flexibility suddenly becomes a very important when you’ve got your second or third trial along the way and all of a sudden even if that subscription price is $600 a month and it gets you a car that would have cost $800 or you bought it you don’t have flexibility in that in that cost so that’s going to be a different way an interesting way to see how this generation works through that when they haven’t nests owned things and and in theory they want to not own it and only just use what they can but two realities that’s almost always at least in current economics the more expensive way to have something right but the question becomes do they want to buy a $70,000 pickup truck or or do they say you know what if they’re buying a $70,000 pickup truck right now anyway well or is it or but I mean but this is where the profits coming from the core $70,000 crossover or $70,000 or you know you name it or are they just basically gonna say you know what you know I’m I’m buying an accord you know that’s that’s gonna set me back that’s gonna set me back you know 30 grand and when we think about that to the used car market is is part of what meets that demand and addresses that buyer you know even it at 17 million at sixteen point eight million the used car market is two and three times that so when you think about new car buyers you have to think about people who are committed to buying new cars right because it’s not the only alternative and they aren’t even the majority they go to curve on they can go to carbon I mean you know big cars maybe 40 million units a year so you know you’re looking at more people buy used cars than buy new cars right um so the affordability is an issue but I think there’s already some things baked in to the system in terms of behavior new car ownership isn’t the only way to get it right but but the used cars don’t do anything for the manufacturers of new cars they allow the seller to go out and buy something buy a new car yeah the one who sold the used car then turned right so I sell a used car to you you sell a new car usually that becomes a used car but you have to replace the new car that you just hope yes it’s I let all right we I went way over the five minutes I said so all right so we’re done this was fun now shut off the your computer go do something else go go read out our extremists or or or or the business of plugging in our group dot org or see something at IHS market I don’t know that’s a good school so okay thank you done – bye oh yeah thank you Gary


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