An Introduction To The Characteristics Of E Bike Motors | Motor Fundamentals

An Introduction To The Characteristics Of E Bike Motors | Motor Fundamentals

– Motors on e-bikes, they’re
kinda like little personalities each have their own traits and mannerisms, all the while working in way with you like little assistants, helping you pedal up hills
you may never have tackled, or go to places you might
never have dreamt of going to. Today then, is a guide
at what to look for, and each of their characters. But they’re not only different characters they vary physically as
well, big bad and noisy, versus silent, sophisticated assassins, whichever way though,
you need to be having a good relationship with your
e-bike and getting along well, having fun because that’s
what e-bikes are about, it’s about having fun. Because if it’s about
super fast climbing prowess that you’re after maybe
these 250 watt motors aren’t for you because these
are very much mountain bikes, with the emphasis on
the rider and fitness, and not just on brute force. But more than this, whilst
the motor is important, the whole bike, the whole system, needs to be matched with good componentry, good reliability, the
bike needs to be agile, needs to be stable, have good
geometry and frame sizing, and the motor needs to be an
extension of your physicality and not working against you. And then, of course, there’s
the such things as the torque and the watts on these
bikes yes they’re important, but they’re still numbers, how do they actually pan out in reality? – Lets start with the basics, we got a few different motors here today, we got Shimano, we got Rocky Mountain, Yamaha, Bosch, Brose,
and of course, Fazua too. You might notice there
is a couple of players missing off of there as well, there’s motors from TQ and Panasonic, but we’re going to be
taking a look at those in a different video. So each of these motors
averagely put out around 250 watts of power, but
peak power is something that differs between these motors, the Brose motor can put
out between 560 watts, whereas the Rocky Mountain
can go to 770 watts of power, so a lot of difference between the brands. So were just going to take
a look at the batteries, 500 watt hour battery
is normal on an e-bike, meaning that if you got
a 250 watt motor powering it’s gonna last roughly around
two hours out on the trail. – And it’s also worth
noting that the power output of the bikes that we’re
talking about are actually not much different to what
professional athletes can produce. Now putting all the e-bike
motors in perspective, there’s also some other types
of motors on the market, Hub-Drive ones, both
front and rear Hub-Drive, but there’s also some after
market bolt on kits available, which offer ludicrous amounts of power, which are not legal on public
roads a lot of the time, and also the power can sometimes be really difficult to control. (upbeat music) there are three component
parts to your e-bike system. The motor, the battery,
which is either internal or external, and the control and display which is normally
located on the handlebar, and it’s the control which
actually alters the amount of assistance you’re given
through your e-bike motor, and this varies from brand to brand. For example, the Haibike
here, with a Bosch motor, varies in assistance from 50
percent assistance, in eco, up to 300 percent assist in turbo mode. I think there’s two different
attitudes when it comes to e-bikes, you can either go
for a minimalist display, such as what we’ve got here
on the Canyon Spectron, or the Specialized, but you
can go for maybe the displays, all the displays method,
you’ve got your Garmin on here, you’ve got the Yamaha display, you got the remote there as well. Right Chris, I think it’s time
to go into the fine details of each of these e-bike motors. (upbeat music) now one of the cool things
about Rocky Mountain is they’ve actually made their own motor, which in turn means they’re
not compromised when it comes to building bikes with the
best geometry possible. It comes with three support
levels, eco, trail and, wait for it, ludicrous
mode, which is that mode which delivers that 108
newton-meters of torque or 770 watts at peak power on this bike,
it really is quite a machine. Now the control is via the
iWoc on the handlebar here, super neat and compact,
remember also you’ve got the ebikemotion app to
customize the settings on your Rocky Mountain Powerplay. The bike comes in two models,
you’ve got 140 version which is the Instinct plus
this Altitude at 150, 160. So what are the characteristics on the Powerplay system then? Well obviously we’re gonna
be doing most of our riding in the middle setting,
because the max power, ludicrous mode is best
kept for special occasions. There definitely is a sweet
spot when it comes to cadence, and the power delivery is so smooth that it almost doesn’t matter. Instant pickup is a key
feature of the Powerplay, due to continuous tension
on the torque arm, there’s no drag and
there’s no lag on this bike and if it’s lubed up
well, it’s super quiet. (upbeat music) – Lets take a look at the vital stats of the Shimano E8000 motor, first up, 70 newton-meters
of torque provided by it, and it weighs in at a 2.88 kilograms, so a really nice lightweight
unit from Shimano. Display wise it’s got the Steps display which displays range, cadence, power mode, lots of different options
available coming from that, a neat little unit
tucked right by the stem, so if you do crash it’s
really well protected as well. So there’s three different
shifter options available for the Shimano unit, we prefer
the slightly cheaper option which allows you to run the dropper post in a lot more thumb friendly
area on the handlebars. So the Shimano system
is totally compatible with your Smartphones as well, downloading the E-TUBE app
you can connect to the bike and change the settings from
custom, dynamic and explorer, and change all those settings, different power outputs
available to the motor. Battery wise the Shimano
E8000 is powered by either an internal or an external battery, on here we’ve got the external unit, which is a really nice lightweight size and is a little bit lighter than the internal option as well. Great thing about these external
batteries, you can sling one in your backpack
for those bigger rides. So some of the neat characteristics on the Shimano E8000
motor is the 25 kph limit is really smooth to overcome
on those road sections, you will notice it a little bit, not quite as the Brose
but very, very manageable even with the power switched off. So the Shimano motor delivers
really nice manageable power, you really don’t need to
be switching between boost and trail, pretty much
any off-road sections, keep it in trail, it’s a
really responsive motor. So there’s a big jump
between trail and boost mode, but most of the time
we riding in trail mode and occasionally switching
up to boost for those very, very technical steep climbs. – And of course Chris you’ve
got the Shimano E7000 system, which is less expensive and
I’m really looking forward to seeing that on a load of
e-bikes in the coming months. Now the cool thing with the
E7000 is it’s actually smaller, 2.78 kilograms, it does have
less torque, 60 newton-meters, but that hasn’t stopped me
from doing some crazy climbs, which I mentioned
earlier on that bike and, if you think about it,
because it’s less powerful that means you’re gonna
get slightly more range. – Wow, more range. – So everybody’s a winner,
and also it’s slightly quieter than the E8000. (upbeat music) The Specialized Levo comes with
a Brose Mag S motor fitted, now obviously that motor is
fitted to other brands as well, such as Fantic or Bulls, but
what the Specialized guys have done is they’ve
custom tuned that motor to their own specification by way of a lot of data acquisition
over the past few years. When it comes to the basics
there’s three levels of support, that’s eco, trail and
boost mode on this bike, and that’s by way of a
really super neat display on the left hand side, it’s
also got walk assist there, which comes in really handy
when you’re on one of those steep pushes, should you
get off the beaten track. There’s an optional display
which you can have for the Levo, look how neat that is, that’s 80 pounds, and the information
this provides is insane, it provides the rider output,
your speed, your cadence, everything and that’s
connected via Bluetooth to the head unit just down by there. Now when it comes to the
tuning options for the Levo there’s actually an
infinite amount of places you can go with this bike, and
what a lot of people like is it’s actually got a shuttle
mode which you can configure via that Mission Control app
which you put on your phone. So what are the characteristics
of the Levo then? Well we largely ride in the
trail, the middle setting, unless we’re toeing to go
some super steep climbs. There’s definitely a
sweet spot of the motor, between 75 and 90 rpm in terms of cadence, but there’s consistent support
even on the steepest climbs. It’s protected, it’s light,
it’s simple, it’s natural, it’s integrated and it’s really silent, plus of course, when you get
past that 25 kilometers an hour there’s hardly any resistance. (upbeat music) – So from Yamaha there’s
two different options, this is a PWX unit which is
more tailored towards extreme mountain biking, has five
different levels of assist, all the way from eco
which is 50 percent assist, all the way up to extra power
which is a 300 percent assist. It’s also used by Giant in
a lot of their bikes too, so really nice, reliable unit. So some of the nice characteristics about the Yamaha unit is that
it’s instant engagement, meaning as soon as you
press on the pedal the motor springs into life, driving
you straight up the hill. The Yamaha PWX unit provides
great torque at lower cadences, although it does seem to
tailer off a little bit more on high cadence, doesn’t mean
that you still can’t tackle some massive climbs on this bike. A really nice feature about
the PWX unit is the way it decouples as well, when
you hit the 25 kph limit it simply powers on almost seamlessly, there is a slight drag,
but nothing noticeable. (upbeat music) – Now Bosch have five different
drive units on the market and this is the Performance Line CX motor, it weighs in at 4.09 kilograms and outputs 75 newton-meters of torque, when it comes to the level of
assist it’s got four levels, it’s got eco, tour, EMTB and turbo, and they output 50, 120,
120 to 300 in EMTB mode and 300 percent in turbo mode. Now you can have four
different types of display on a Bosch equipped bike,
you’ve either got the Intuvia, the Nyon, the Purion,
which we have on here, or the newer version which is the Kiox, actually if you look at the Nyon display, it’s almost like a personal
trainer on your bike, it gives you so much
information it’s crazy. Now the Bosch system has
some notable characteristics, no more so than the EMTB mode, which actually acts like an automatic, in EMTB it dishes out
the power progressively, giving you between 120 to
300 percent assist levels, depending on how hard you’re
pushing on the pedals, it’s really easy to
use and there’s no need for constant mode changing. Yes, it can be a bit of a
handful if you do use turbo, it does need managing,
especially when climbing, there’s also quite a lot of resistance when you pedal past that 25
kilometer an hour marker. Now one of the great things about Bosch is because they’ve been around
since the beginning in 2012, there’s a great support network out there to look after your bike. (upbeat music) There is the Fazua system,
which is pretty pioneering, what Fazua have done is
they’ve got a small unit which is located in the
down tube of the bike, which is de-mountable which
means you can actually ride the bike as a normal mountain bike. It’s got 60 newton-meters of
torque and it’s controlled via this bottom bracket
unit plus the drive unit which is in here, and then all you do is slot the battery
into that sleeve there. Now a key feature of the Fazua motor is, obviously there’s less power there, plus it’s got that 250 watt hour battery, which is obviously half
the size of the bikes here, but never the less, it gives
you the same amount of range, plus you’ve got that light bike, so I think for a lot of people
who are maybe on the fence when it comes to e-bike, it’s
actually quite a good option. So that’s it on our brief
look into e-bike motors, don’t forget you can subscribe to EMBN so we can continue to bring
you e-bike specific content, in the mean time, check out Chris’ feature when it comes to pure speed. – Yeah and also to
Steve, take a look at the Shimano E7000 motor out
of the Roc d’Azur festival if you wanna learn more about that. Don’t forget, give us a
thumbs up, drop us a comment in the box below, we’ll
see you in the next one. – ’cause the rain’s coming, see you later.

39 Replies to “An Introduction To The Characteristics Of E Bike Motors | Motor Fundamentals”

  1. I've got giant using Yamaha pwx motor . Just great long fire roads rides nice , but the power if needed on climbs is just there .

  2. The only one that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole for my use, is the Rocky Mountain. From my brief test and from reading various forums, the chain case clogs and blocks when things get muddy.  The only place for it as far as I'm concerned, is Room 101.

  3. #AskEMBN great feature. Very informative and look forward to seeing these in context with the TQ and Panasonic motors. Only question that came to mind was: how does the torque rating relate to the level of assistance modes? Would be great if you could clarify. Thanks!
    Just to illustrate: Bosch performance line CX with 75Nm of torque: In ECO mode it provides 50% assistance, which I figured was around half its max torque output, but if that is the case, what does it mean when it says it provides 300% assistance in Turbo mode? It can't really relate directly to the torque output, can it? Would have thought 100% assistance would equate to the motors max torque output.

  4. Guys, help me out with this: I own a giant with a Yamaha pwx pro motor. 80nm and 250w. But it is a LOT more powerful than the eclipse2 powered focus I had before… Is this really 250W? Thanks

  5. QUESTION for EMBN….. Is it ok to ride your E-Bike but keep the motor OFF? Like for long descents or just wanting to save battery. Is it ok for the motor to ride it turned off? Thank you

  6. PLEASE do a segment on eBikes that offer different motors!  —– WHAT SYSTEM HAS PROVEN ITSELF TO BE TOPS?
    NORCO offers an E7000 & the E8000…
    Rocky Mountain has the Dyname 3.0 250w / 48v in Li-Ion 632 Watt/Hr Battery OR Li-Ion 500 Watt/Hr Battery
    Cannondale offers the Bosch Performance Line in 250W(25km) or in 350W(45km)

  7. Not sure why more Giant e-bikes aren't featured as the Yamaha/Giant motor gives 360% assistance and 80Nm in the 2019 Trance-e. They seem to be one of the best value bikes getting around at the moment as they cost half as much as the featured Levo and have higher spec components.

  8. Great vid guys, very informative. I have the Performance Line CX on my Haibike. The cut off is quite harsh at 25kph but tbh on descents you don’t notice it. I use mine in tour mode for climbing unless it’s really tech terrain and emtb for descending. Preserves battery power and although it sounds quite a weird way to use it, it works for me. I like the beasting for climbing as it’s good training and then the extra power if needed descending.

  9. I first tried a Bosch Haibike and then a Yamaha one. Yamaha all the way – for me. quick engaging, super strong and low drag. I guess they are all pretty good though.

  10. I keep thinking that there are no ( non patronizing) reviews for hybrids, everyday stuff, going to the shops, carrying shopping, comfort, etc.
    I realize that the glamorous high speed, hurtling down mountains, cost no object bikes will attract sponsors and youngsters with money, enough to own several £5K+ bikes.
    But where are the real reviews? ie No "what a lovely bell" or indeed " such lovely colours" or "a very nice finish on the headlight and cleverly concealed wiring"
    Less "Top Gear" more" Auto Express" tell us about innovation in the volume market. Sub £2k good value everyday rides. I'm 70 and haven't riden a non motorized two wheeler in decades. My ebike is my lifeline, it seems that the only advice is from sources with vested interests £££££££.
    Am I missing something out there?

  11. "There's an optional display for the Levo"

    holds up a tiny LCD display

    "That's 80 pounds"

    Yeap, typical Specialized, making everything expensive as usual.

  12. Flyon Tq motor review please guys I'm very interested in the new haibike flyon range and would like your honest opinion please.

  13. Where the heck is discussion about Bafang? Huge selection of motors – hub and mids, from 110w hub to 1000w Ultra mid motor that makes the puny 250w Euro spec seem ridiculous.

  14. I tried few bikes and IMO motor is not the most important.
    For MTB priorities are ergonomy, geometry, traction , solid design.
    I accept only integrated battery solution where the battery can be easy removed from the bottom side.(we can mount bottle cage)
    And of course the price is important too.
    I bought Scott e-genius 920 for 3600 Euro last year and it has E8000 motor.
    It is quiet when heavy loaded.
    If not than it delivers some noise but mistly it is slways loaded.
    And in Shimano system I like levers for switching assistance level -they are confortabke in use particulary in winter when I use thick gloves.
    It is a kind of front derailleur😀

  15. One of the best presentations so far, superb and easy at the same time, a lot of information, comparisons to … Steve, that's it!👌❤❤❤

  16. I’m currently riding my Merida eone sixty great bike but I do find it pretty noisy is there any tricks to quietening these motors

  17. No disrespect but putting out 250W does not mean it lasts two hours from a 500Wh battery. From battery to rear wheel power, it’s a serial efficiency equation which depends on a number of factors such as Amps (torque) and Volts (rpm). If the statement above were true we’d have 100% efficiency and that’s just not physics 😏

  18. Until they start making heavy chains for mid-drives, I will never buy one. I have snapped too many chains and busted my balls too many times and know better.

  19. Embn show, why is it that you have gone from saying that specialized / brose has peak watts of around 700w -1000 w,to saying it has a peak of 560w ???
    Also the illegal motor kits you speak of are not that much different than your pedalecs, just more fun lol honestly you guys crack me up ,here come take the piss out of me on my site for a change.

  20. Hi guys. I have a 2017 turbo Levo. I would like to change for a Rocky mountain power play altitude, or the new Levo. But the Levo is really more expensive than the RM for the same equipment (suspensions). Do you have a brake after 25 km/h with the RM ? As you say you do not have any resistance with the new Levo. Which one will you recommend ? Thanks

  21. What about the raising complaints worldwide about the Bosch Performance CX? Specifically for loud noise, similar to a coffee grinder….. Apparently the motor bearings get dust… There are more and more customers complaining about this

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