2000 Sebring JXI No Crank Diagnosis (starter testing)

2000 Sebring JXI No Crank Diagnosis (starter testing)


they got scanner to enter here trying to bail my friend Pete out here on a Sebring they just put an engine in a ton of stop boys just do a quick 360 tips everybody can see what’s going on in here there’s people everywhere we have an audience and it’s a no crank we’re just trying to handle this no crank for him after they put an engine in this so that’s that’s the plan it’s a 2000 Sebring I already looked at the diagram control side of the starter relay is fed from the TCM and is controlled by the ECM so it looks like TCM sends power ECM grounds it or vice-versa so I’m gonna connect the scan tool just because it’s had an engine swap and see if we have any TCM or ECM related folks all right one of the things I was concerned about as a party neutral switch problem you see on the dash it’s a digital cluster display for that and it does say that it’s in part so that’s just a good guide as far as part neutral switch goes while the scan tool is loading up the starter relay should be in this box Pete was not able to locate it did he give me the right here mm it should be in that box go right to some starter relay text if that’s where it was located but according to this it’s not according to the service information I looked up before we got here it is in that box and no codes I need to know and even to wear this starter relay is no codes in the engine computer the only code in the TCM was a battery was this connected fault so the scan tool is not gonna help us I have to find this starter relay I looked before and I’m just having difficulty it’s a Sebring JX I maybe that makes a difference I don’t know so engines starter motor relay it says in PDC the power distribution center that’s where we just were under the hood it’s not there it’s a real basic system I mean look at it you got your starter motor bottom right your relay our distribution center fuse number eight to 20 amp fuse we’ll check that go to the ignition switch the control side of the relay you can see the TCM controls the yellow orange wire and the PCM controls the tan red wire there’s no faults in memory as far as the starting part goes it does say it’s in part on the cluster we can also check that on the engine computer side see if we have some kind of switch input Kaleb so there when I crank this when I hit this in the crank position there should be a switch input signal that says we’re trying to crank it there’s your shifter info see it says it’s in park there’s neutral for that sorry that’s reverse neutral Drive nothing wrong with our partners will switch to Caleb so now what I want to know is do I have an input for my ignition c1 maybe it’s under the TCM I’m just looking for a crank switch input if the computer controls the relay then there has to be an input to tell it that I’m hitting the key in the crank position I’m just looking for my input side yep and this would go along with our switch inputs chapter that you were just editing pull-up or pulldown circuit that starter signal I have to look back at the diagram again I might be speaking incorrectly here hold on okay so when I crank it I’m sorry I’m sorry so the switch would be red wire from fuse number eight comes down powers up the yellow orange wire which also feeds the TCM so the TCM this is gonna be a pull up switch input design kale so see the fuse comes over to the ignition switch when I turn the key and go to the start position it sends 12 volts down the yellow wire which feeds the relay coil it also feeds that same 12 volts over to the TCM that is a pull up design switch input externally sourced internally monitor so on my TCM I should see when I hit it to the crank position I should see a yes or a high low or on/off and if I do what’s that tell me about my ignition switch you’re good yes and sorry and what’s that tell me about my fuse out here there you go that’s what I’m trying to do right now without doing the checks under the hood just trying to work smart not hard and that’s what I’m looking for c2 c4 so they’re they’re labeling them see to switch cforce with c1 switz III switch so that might be it doesn’t say like ignition crank which I was hoping for I don’t and these aren’t really changing yeah this whole list so that’s in the run position then that’s in the crank position I don’t see anything change actually came up no communication when I held it in the crank position so I’m I’m just I’m trying to work smart and maybe not explain every single step I’m gonna go check that fuse number eight just because I have some questions in the saddle this taalib sorry the questions I have in this data list it says c2 c3 or c4 c1 c2 like I think those are the different positions of the ignition switch yeah but I don’t know that for sure and so rather than spending time looking up the data pins and what they mean I can check that fuse under the hood fuse number eight which would be easier than me going through that so I’m gonna go back under the hood and hopefully we may come back to this but I want to see if I can find that fuse and find this stupid starter relay so get us out of this box Caleb I think it’s this one and it says ignition fuel starter so writings below is this one that should be my as should be this guy yeah that fuse is good now where is this stupid relay engine starter motor relay in power distribution center but it’s not it’s not all the service information I have says it’s there and it’s not in power distribution center engine starter motor relay wait we got another box right here ha another box there it is so now the question is where does it live front a car cool that’s a nice picture so it’s just bottom left one is my starter relay the EES way brother you activate my favorite tool it’s a fourth clapping relay but we’re only using four of them so without doing any checks I hit this switch it should it should crank this I have the key on so it should start you’re nothing the control side of the relays this one that should light whenever I go inside and crank it how’s the control side of my relay control sides good we have a load side problem and the reason we know we have a load side problem when I hit that to the on position it should crank okay so load side relay issue so that comes from the same fuse that feeds the control side so it’s not going to be a fuse issue that means our problem is going to be right down at the starter this is going to be hot how did I know that because it’s a shared feed with the control side on the diagram it shows it red wire is the same red wire that feeds the ignition switch same fuse feeds the control side coil red wire here same wire that feeds the load side and that’s what I’m checking right there and then when I switch this over to here right and flip the switch that should light which it does that should be cranking the engine over that goes right down that wire is this brown wire right here right and that should be feeding the starter right now it is not another check you can do which checks the continuity through the starter itself through the starter relay the brushes the Stella voi switched the battery positive that should be lit and it is so that means we do not have a wiring problem to the starter this is just a messed up starter I wonder if this starter came with this engine this would be one you’d snack on it right now because what that’s telling me this is with it off I have my test light going to battery positive I’m going into this brown wire right here with battery positive voltage and it is finding a ground through the starter solenoid I hear nothing let’s go up in the air I’m gonna shut the key off so if we do get this to crank then I will it won’t start we’ll just get it to crack problems underneath for sure our problem is underneath I mean the only other variable would be that I’m not really on the starter relay and I’m tucking the wrong circuit can’t be because it lit when I cranked it so I am on the right circuit nice that the starter is right here those starters right here in the front come over here my shoulder here’s your wiring for it alright so wiring to the starter that’s my heavy this is my heavy load cable okay and then this is my control and I didn’t back probe that let me get my tool okay every post check okay that’s not a good test unless it’s loaded I’m gonna load the circuit by flipping the switch oh my toe life stays lit no problem with that heavy cable at all okay next one smaller gauge wire this is going to prove to be good based on the tests I did above but I’m going to check it anyway now stay there if there’s as long as you can you see the light – and you’re shot flip the switch what do we got it’s lit right okay final check being that this had a engine replaced we want to make sure that starter has a good ground before we call the starters being bad and that’s as simple as putting my test light all in the housing of the starter if this block has a background if the starter has a bad ground the starter is going to light so in other words the starter itself the housing of the starter is going to light if that ground is bad but I need to load it so can you oh that switch is already flipped good switch it off switch it back on this deeds started he’s started so now we feed on it given that we really aren’t gonna ruin anything anyway right so I have this switch already engaged nothing doing on that guy you need to start or Pete what so I don’t know what we don’t know is did that starter come with this engine you said this is the starter that came with the motor maybe they ruined it when they try to crank it over to with the bad engine they freakin smoked it it’s a simple circuit Pete pull the starter I me the only yeah I was gonna say the only other thing would be is a connection of that post but even that’s good cuz we failed we check that from the top to battery positive and it lit telling you continuity was good all the way through you need a starter dude why this is lighting I thought this is light load side LED I fought with light on this tool has a power that’s why now I’ve just learned in my tool so a continuity check Caleb for the load side of this tool I just this is kind of familiarizing myself I’m like what my only last question was why is that an LED not lighting and it’s not set up that LEDs not wired unless you flip the LED light so the fact that it lights tells you the load side has a power and a ground and the ground is going through the solenoid itself the test that we showed already with the test light – battery positive saying that the solenoid wire was intact we were finding a ground through the brushes through the solenoid itself that’s what that bulb does so I could have done that check – it needs a starter no he says they cranked it and moved it before they put the engine in it I don’t know what happened to that starter in the process right it was removed the engine was replaced it was reinstalled what happened in the process of that I have no idea this is a standard needs a starter no other issues you know we again we get questioned the block round but I’m telling you that no codes no other faults if you have bad luck rounds you’re gonna have some weird things going on with the other systems the other thing is the test I did with the test light is a valid test for that ground it was a loaded circuit ground to ground test and the fact that my test light did not light says there is no voltage on that ground or at least not enough to light the light and we should at least beginning and click from the solenoid which we don’t have and I have no problem at this point this needs a starter we are done final shot when this starter gets replaced just up the thing cranking so you guys can trust us which must have you do anyway but some new people here might not know we’re getting a shot of that for you guys after Pete put the starter in this we’re done alright it’s day two we’re back and Pete put a starter in this it did fix it let me let you guys hear it we’re gonna crank it over one more time probably can get a shot right there Caleb and show the new starter alright so there’s my new starter kind of tough to see from the top but I think you can see some newer material there right starter has been replaced so a couple things number one we are back here so we can show you guys the engine starting number two pizza that this thing’s shutting off when it gets hot and I want to give them an idea of where to go with that that diagnosis will not be done in this video as far as the no restart goes but while we’re talking it may die and that’s gonna shift what I’m gonna do real quick with you guys so there’s two things that I wanted to mention talk about before we wrap this up number one is are you confident enough in your diagnostic abilities to refute what everyone else is telling you so the everyone else being other guys in the shop right what I was told was this same starter was on the old engine and that it started up and they moved it into position so there would be no reason to think the starter went bad between engine swaps when it was the same starter so my point is are you confident up in your diagnosis to say I’m sorry I don’t know what happened in between the motor swap or engine swap but it needs a starter I think it’s important to have that kind of confidence number two would be the test light to ground test that I showed on the starter housing ground-to-ground with the test light was a legit test for the no crank no click no nothing okay it wasn’t doing anything what that will look like with a bad block ground is that test light will light and I made that clear now I understand it’s not the perfect test a voltmeter would be better for example we could have two volts on a block ground that would not light my test light and it would show you that it’s good but if you had two volts on your block ground when you cranked it that starter would have still clicked and we have had other symptoms other codes other faults lighting systems that weren’t working right – lights that weren’t working right things like that so the fact that it was a complete no crank no click no nothing and that my test light did not light going ground-to-ground on the starter housing said a bad block round was not our problem I’m gonna put some clips in here right now as I’m talking this is what one looks like on a Nissan with a bad block round you can see in this image I’m having Pete crank it crank it hitting the key and my test lights lighting when I’m touching on the block on the block itself that’s what its gonna look like and then there’s another one I want to show you it’s on a Ford Taurus with a bad block ground and I’m doing the same thing with a test light cranking it over just touching on the block so touching the starter housing would be the same as touching on the block because they’re bolted to each other okay that’s what a bad block ground looks like and this did not have it so hopefully that cleared up any questions with that and the final piece to this one really is going to be done off-camera which is a no restart I think it has a faulty crank sensor this will be saved for another video if we even film it I guess one last comment on this one would be for you mobile diagnostic guys that are charging for stuff like this or even for you garage owners or your do-it-yourself errs that are charging your neighbor how do you handle something like this you were called in for a no crank diagnosis you properly identified a faulty starter and now the engine stalls and doesn’t restart it cranks but it doesn’t restart so we’re missing spark or fuel do you charge more and the answer is absolutely to be clear I do not charge my friend Pete or my brother for that matter anything for my Diagnostics so when I’m talking about diagnostic fees I’m trying to teach you guys how to build for them I’m not trying to be greedy myself because I am accused of that in the YouTube world with the armchair keyboard warriors the armchair mechanics that you know I’m over Tarzan forced often I’ve heard that a lot but in a case like this is a separate fault it’s a separate charge this engine now cranks you handle the starting part now it has a intermittent no restart where it cranks but doesn’t start again spark or fuel problem totally separate problem totally separate charge you should not be doing free diagnostic work it’s a separate fee and that’s the way you need to handle it that’s why we’re ending this video here for our no crank problem with the faulty starter so I hope you guys learned something from that thank you so much for joining us special thanks to cameraman kala for being here with us – we’ll see you guys next time


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